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Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

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Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:02 pm

HWKII and I have been rummaging through old F1 seasons.

I've started with 1984. Watched Brazil and South Africa the other night and posted some opinions in the other F1 thread.

Week 3 of the season sees F1 at Zolder for the final time, the first of the videos with the Murray and James calling the race. Gilles Villeneuve was killed there in 1982. They raced at Spa in 83 and were back for one last Belgium GP at Zolder for 84, though apparently the Gilles Villenueve Chicane hadn't been added to the track yet.

2006 saw more safety changes made to the track, so what I'm watching has a narrower stratight, narrower T1, 2 and 3. The chicane on the back straight looks deeper too. The final chicane looks more like what we see on iRacing with the Alternate version of Zolder.

Lol at Alfa Romeo. Everyone knows they're going to run out of fuel as the teams cope with the first ever fuel allocation of no more than 220L and no refueling allowed.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:06 pm

I am somewhat disappointing that the 1993/1994 seasons are Speed replays of the classic seasons, which means instead of Murray Walker, I get ... some Speed dudes.

I am nearly done downloading 86.

Last night I fell asleep to the 1989 race at Spa in the pouring rain, and watching Senna put on a clinic in his McLaren was very impressive. The total lack of visibility was horrifying. Going to sit down and go through 1994 despite my displeasure with the commentary.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:47 pm

Imola 1994. Sad I'd seen the footage before, but somehow in the context of the rest of the race made it more real. All those laps behind the Safety Car.

The Speed commentary though... I lost count of how many times "and you have to wonder if that contributed" was uttered. At some level, I feel like this race needs to just stand on it's own, but it's been like 45 minutes of theorizing. Sad

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:32 pm

Jumping back to 1980. The videos are 45 minute BBC race highlights with James and Murray's commentary. First two rounds (Argentina and Brazil) were nearly boycotted for poor track conditions... James' reponse was 'Well, it's the same for everyone, so they should race on'.

Old Interlagos is pretty sweet.

The 1979 videos are all German. Sad

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  clacksman on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

HWKII wrote:I am somewhat disappointing that the 1993/1994 seasons are Speed replays of the classic seasons,

That be "Formula One Decade"? Good shows when new ... most of the time.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:08 pm

clacksman wrote:
HWKII wrote:I am somewhat disappointing that the 1993/1994 seasons are Speed replays of the classic seasons,

That be "Formula One Decade"? Good shows when new ... most of the time.

Those are the ones. Would just prefer "live" or, recordings of live. Sadly, global warming and the communists have probably destroyed all of those tapes.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:36 am

Ran out of space on my laptop when downloading the earlier seasons. Very much looking forward to 1992. 1992/1993 I think was when I was first exposed to Formula 1, and I have images of the 1993 Benetton livery deeply ingrained in my mind. I've now completed watching the 1989, 1994, 1993 and 2007 seasons as well (I need a life Sad) and I have to say...

I'd always accepted the trope about how you can't pass in F1 and that it's boring as a fact. It's simply not. Maybe 2000-2005 was shitty, and that's fine, but there is PHENOMENAL racing going back less than 2 decades. What's very disappointing to me too is that it really doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything new since the 90s. I mean, yes, aerodynamics have advanced and become more complicated on the cars in the last 20 years, but so many of the "new" tech that they talk about in the pre-race analysis and on F1 technical websites have been around forever. FRIC? Yeah, they had that in 1993. Passive stalling of aero surfaces to improve straight line speed? Also 1993, maybe earlier.

Also, I couldn't help it, I re-watched Monaco 1997. Good lord what a great race... Monza, Y U HAZ BACKWARDS CHICANE!? And please for the love of all that is good and holy in this universe, let us go racing in Austria again...

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:11 am

I've been poking around the early 80s, watching bits of races. The safety, sorry, lack of safety, was stunning considering the lengthy list of injuries and deaths the sport had racked up to that point.

After Villeneuve's death they raced Zolder again 2 years later, still without the chicane where he died.

Those rows of loosely planted fence posts were on a heck of a lot of tracks. They thought that was a good idea.

In Argentina in 1980 the track was breaking up so bad that their lap times were around wet weather times.

There safety car hadn't been invented yet. Heck, the local yellow was only a suggestion. Marshals ran out on track to push and pull car parts off the track, nervously glancing over their shoulders as they heard cars coming. In 81, John Watson crashes exiting Lesmo 2 and his car splits in two. If it wasn't so scary it would be comical, watching them pull on the engine and transaxle. They barely pull it off the track and just leave it there for the rest of the race.

That double chicane at Monza was sweet.

The racing was decent. Not nearly as frantic as today. Passing was usually done very gentlemanly.

Prost was amazing right from the get go.





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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:19 am

Also James Hunt thinks your weaving to warm the tires is a bit pointless and that eventually two cars will be on the opposite ends of it and come together in a crash.

James Hunt was awesome.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:59 am

Forgetful wrote:Also James Hunt thinks your weaving to warm the tires is a bit pointless and that eventually two cars will be on the opposite ends of it and come together in a crash.

James Hunt was awesome.

Martin Brundle argues with Murray Walker a lot about this in the 1990s too. It always makes me laugh. Murrary walker may be iconic but... I dunno about that guy...

James Hunt's comments during the races in the 1980s are amazing though. Just very blunt, "Well, get on with it then."

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 am

My gawd, Monaco 81. Villeneuve passes Jones at start finish for the lead like he's standing still. Hello turbo.

I want Jarama in my life.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:19 am

lol, in 81 the Japanese footage is near HD quality, whereas all the other broadcasts have been pretty bad.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:08 am

Oh god, if there was an organization like NFL Films for Formula 1... They're the reason we have so much amazing, clear, footage of 1960s and 1970s NFL football. The cameras that they were shooting on have great picture quality. It's just that the broadcasts were all really weak. I would kill for archival footage from the original reels...

Kill...

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  clacksman on Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:58 am

HWKII wrote:Oh god, if there was an organization like NFL Films for Formula 1... They're the reason we have so much amazing, clear, footage of 1960s and 1970s NFL football. The cameras that they were shooting on have great picture quality. It's just that the broadcasts were all really weak. I would kill for archival footage from the original reels...

Kill...

NFL Films literally uses film cameras, and they're not available to the TV broadcast. F1 tended to just show the 'local' broadcaster product everywhere (how far back goes the phrase 'these pictures from the host broadcaster XYZTV are not under our control' as something irrelevant is happening on screen), so quality old video/sound is a bit lacking.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  clacksman on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:23 am

Forgetful wrote:There safety car hadn't been invented yet.

Well, not in F1, who basically had a not-invented-here mentality until Sid Watkins got some power and started looking at how safety is done elsewhere (ie: CART). F1 had no concept of a full-course yellow or a pace car to enforce it, and when they finally did the track was left to provide the car and driver which is how Inoue gets hit by the crappy Fiat in Italy. I forget what year Mercedes began to cough up prepped cars for pacing/medical at every round.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  timneyb on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:33 am

Forgetful wrote:lol, in 81 the Japanese footage is near HD quality, whereas all the other broadcasts have been pretty bad.

Reminds me of an Onion headline:

Devastating earthquake knocks Japan back into the 23rd century.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:43 pm

It seems to be something to do with the broadcasters, because I have these Japanese broadcasts sprinkled through every season of the 80s, and it doesn't matter which track their at, their footage is crystal clear.

This is indicative of the difference and it remains the same throughout the 80s.



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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  clacksman on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Titling on the Japanese one suggests an "F1 decade"-like show. Not too surprising that japanese video quality surpasses (____).

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  Forgetful on Wed May 01, 2013 10:34 pm



Well, at least the 82 Arrows looked good.

82 is quite the year. Prost really starts to express his ability to dominate. The turbos too. I'm at the Zandvoort, bout 2/3 through the season. Attrition is the name of the game as they develop the turbos and get in to the super stiff suspension era. Drivers are starting to get fatigued by the G forces.

It is quite funny to watch as most of the good racing and passing came when a line of cars would get backed up behind a Ferrari. The other cars were all faster through the corners but couldn't touch the red cars on the straight. This produces the historic Spanish GP where Villeneuve finishes 1st with the next 4 cars in tow, the procession having started about half way through the race.

OMG, that Monaco GP was pretty epic. The race no one wanted to win. Shocked

The death of Gilles really did steal something special away from the sport just as he was starting to bring it all together. Paletti's death on the grid at Canada was just sad. Really, really sad.

That Rosberg dude is pretty good.

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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Thu May 02, 2013 12:19 am

Just finished downloading 1979, the ... video quality is quite poor. It's honestly hard to make out what's even going on Laughing

1982 is a season I am really looking forward to watching though, the Clive James season review was amazing.

Downforce? Upthrust? Advertising Space?


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Re: Vintage F1 Discussion Thread

Post  HWKII on Sat May 04, 2013 8:49 pm

The great thing about Zandvoort is that the cars can get past each other in a corner - even after a 200mph straight - so quite frequently they look as if they're racing.

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